kiwinacol

Great post Ken. I've moved from Acol and Precision to 2/1, by-passing Std Am. The older Ben Cohen style of Acol I played had many sign-offs and invitational bids that 2/1 regards as forcing (and I don't mean just the obvious sequences like 1H - f1nt, and 1H- gf2C). A list of those common auctions would be useful to me and my partners who are recent converts to 5 card majors. Thanks Ash.

Thanks Kaitlyn, most of those sequences also don't apply. For the tWalsh I was considering transfers over 1C and what I might suffer (e.g. ability to rest in 2 diamonds and a lesser degree 2C's) if the majority of bids focused on the majors, at the expense of minor suit description. RP's data suggests less than 3 in 100 hands are played in 2C and 2D. This % includes both offensive and defensive bidding and makes me more comfortable with his slightly different tWalsh method. I also liked BCrane's quote from left2right "Two diamonds is always the wrong contract... for one side or the other."

Hello all, although I scanned Richard Havlicek's site I missed the appropriate stats area he provided. He replied the answer to my first question is at: http://www.rpbridge.net/9y37.htm, and my second: "A check of my major event database (80,138 results) showed: Spades longest fit, contract in another suit: 573 Hearts longest fit, contract in another suit: 730 Diams longest fit, contract in another suit: 2368 Clubs longest fit, contract in another suit: 2513 To be counted, the fit had to be clear longest (not tied) and all notrump contracts were excluded."

Hello to all who replied. Your responses were appreciated and made me realise my questions were too general. Stefan_O. If the sample or simulation is large enough I though your requirements wouldn't matter as much. I was thinking of tables I've seen sometime ago (and they were from the Far Eastern Championships) where the stats were for opening weak 1NT and short 1D, and Diamond contracts were compared. More than that I can't remember. The player was reflecting that they felt they had done OK with the Precision 1D opener, but in fact the data did not support that. Thanks all. Ash.

Hello all, I'm looking at a system (a variety of tWalsh) where the ability to play in a D suit at the 2L is abandoned in preference to strengthening description of possible major suit fits. Someone may have access to data or a table that answers these questions please? How often is a contract played in 2D compared to other 2 level contracts? Where a 8+ D fit exists, how often is the contract not in D's? many thanks, Ash.

Hello. The second heart suit is poor so I'll bid 2S even though it only describes a 6+ suit. In the first example the hearts are worth showing and responder is slightly better off as only 4 opening cards are unknown.<br style="font-size: 9pt;">

Thanks Zelandakh. I should have checked the archives about singleton honours. My posts have linked to a member with Gazzilli knowledge so I happy about that. Your tip about copying other top pair versions is valid but LL's article revealed ideas and work arounds I wouldn't have thought of. Regards Kiwinacol.

Hello bravejason. I tried just five reveals with mixed EW hands and 5H went -1 DD on all of them.

Hello Wank. Thanks for the comment. Yes the singleton KS isn't yet pulling its weight so others advised to downgrade the hand. I was trying to find a cut off point for Gazzilli amongst readers as there seemed to be a number of different versions. Lauria appeared to be playing 15+, at least at the time he wrote the document I use, with I think lighter Precision style openers jumps. Others Gazzilli'ers seem to require higher values for openers jump shifts. Two examples from his work: 1H- 1N; 2S = 6H/4S, 14-15 HCP, concentrated points. Yes he has 15 in the range here but most other strong 2C continuations are listed as 15+. S AK53. H AK8642. D. 62. C 4. 1H- 1N; 3S = 6H/5S, 12-14 HCP (stronger hands go via 2C GL), with: S AK853. H AK8642. D 6. C 4. Yes its a magnificent hand on shape, and not to be accused of only counting HCP, I wonder if these hands and bids would fall in the same categories for other Gazzilli flavours? Unfortunately Lauria doesn't give many other examples and its less clear what his minimums are for 2C on less extreme hands. Here is another of his hands- S A5. H AK764. D 4. C KJ975. And bidding - 1H-1S; 2C- 2N, 4C- 5C; P, where 2n is described as 4-7 HCP, singleton or void H, no 5S, at least 3C. The other hand was- S K973. H 3. D Q83. C QT642. S A5. H AK764. D 4. C KJ975. and S K973. H 3. D Q83. C QT642. perhaps if responder had bid 2D, 1H- 1N; 2C- 2D; Lauria was intending to bid 2H to show 5H, 4C and weaker hand but his auction over the 2N isn't consistent with that. So his 2C here was bid to reveal the stronger 15+ holding? Cheers kiwinacol.

Thanks. I've sent you an email. What other bids do these 12-14 M+m hands get bundled with?

Hello fromageGB, thanks for your comments. Its interesting to read your ideas and others to, and the impact your variations have on the rest of the code. With my learners version of Gazzilli I set out to trial it without making major changes to the rest of our 2/1 system, with hoped for easier adoption by my other partners. I've retained the standard meanings of 1D and 1M with GF 2 suit responses, rev Bergen, j2NT and f1nt etc. We are used to the f1NT accommodating weak hands, 3 card major raises and NT and suits/hcp below 2/1 requirements, so 1H 1N; 2H is still 6 cards. I see you also still retain the f1NT though some bidders claim it doesn't work with Gazzilli. I think I've found ways of retaining the meaning of many of those problem major and D/C hands where the minors get lost but my code my be unworkable. Unfortunately discussing these details with many other players readily bores the pants off them. At the moment I've abandoned 1H 1S; 2C sequences as they are just too complex. 1H 1N; 2C now seems fine for me and I'm working on the harder 1S 1Nt; 2C stuff. Perhaps I would send you my work to look at sometime? Thanks, Ash Hailton.

thanks for the replies, pero90, bravejason and rmnka447. kiwinacol

Hello all. Except for the internet I'm pretty bridge isolated so I use my computer programs a lot. A problem hand for me. North (dealer) hand. S K H KT953 D AKJT2 C QT For interest here is South’s hand but I’m mainly interested in Norths actions. S AJT H 876 D 6 C A98632 An older copy of Bridge Baron bid the hands as: 1H - f1N; 2D - 3H; 4H - P. Also set to 2/1, my new Jack program produced: 1H - f1N; 3D - 3H; 4H - 4N; 5H - P. 5H = 2 no Q. With 3D being identified as 18+. To me 3D is aggressive with the KS and ordinary H suit. Neither program uses Gazzilli 2C. Firstly with the singleton spade how much is North’s hand worth? Some players in a Precision group I attended would initially discount the KS to virtually zero. I would rather have it than the opponents so it must be worth something but how much? I guess Jack allowed more for it than BB. I ran the hand through an evaluator on Richard Pavlicek’s site (http://www.rpbridge.net/cgi-bin/xhe1.pl) and it generated 17.3 using Kaplan-Rubens methods. With the f1N I'm none the wiser about the worth of my KS. So is it a poor 3D or a 2D bid with plenty to spare? Secondly I’m experimenting with Gazzilli 2C* (1 of major, forcing 1N, then 2C* as 16+). North’s hand is 2D and 1/2 and should be one that Gazzilli assists with. Now I need some guidance from Gazzilli users. Would you downgrade the hand to 1H - f1N; 2D or perhaps bid 1H - f1N; 3D (not forcing)? Another possible approach is to use Gazzilli (and counting some value for KS): 1H - f1N; 2C* ,an advantage being that responder can now bid an artificial 2D with 8-10, or make a weaker bid, or a strong limit bid like 3H that shows 3 trumps and below 2/1 requirements. BTW I use revBergen so I can’t bid 1H - 3H. Bidding with or without Gazzilli these hands, NS are going to game anyhow. Would you use Gazzilli 2C’s though? i.e. 1H- 1N; 2C*- 3H; 4H What if North was: S x H KT953 D AKJT2 C KQ but South holds 5 - 7 with no good fit? Without Gazzilli it might go 1H 1NT; 3D[GF] - ? :) thank you from Gazzilli experimenter :rolleyes: kiwinacol.

Thank you fromageGB. Soon I'm going to ask Ritong's advice on how well he thinks his 2 bids work and problems that have raised at the table. A couple of questions please. With Gazzilli, 16+, what do you do with hands like S QJT6 H AKJ73 D 5 C Q93? 1H f1N; ? Bid 2D and hope you don't get a flat tyre as well? There is no good reason to bid 2S as the reverse isn't needed to show extra points nor is responders preference at the three level holding a weak opener that nice. Even a weak opening hand with 46(31) might be unpleasant with a shape 2S bid. And how often would a weak 56+(m) come up to use the reserve for that? With that shape and moderate hand one might bid a non-forcing 1H 1N; 3S? If thats the case, would it be better to use the sequence 1H 1N; 2S to cover other hand types and to take more pressure off the G sequence bids? BTW I don't use Flannery so thats not an option. e.g. to begin showing 18+ single suiter or 18+ two suiters a minor or any unbalanced 18+ or higher range hand? thank you Ash

OK, thanks.

Hello, Dealer N, all NV. NORTH S AKQT9 H A52 D T87 C A3 S 3 H KJT74 D AK943 C T2 I've redealt EW hands about 20 times in my Jack computer programme. I've also purchased Dealmaster Pro but haven't learnt how to use it for faster and larger samples. Jack uses a DD solver and it bids and makes grands in S's or H's or D's on many redeals. I'd hope to get to a small slam as the 13 tricks look well below par with out double vision. Jack seems to bid it without any flair, 1S - f1N; 3N pass, using 2/1 but not Gazzilli. Can you use either of theses approaches to do better? Thank you. It seems to me that STD may produce a better description of the south hand, being able to bid 2H over 1S and perhaps get the D's in at a later stage?

Hello fromageGB. No guarantee for 4+D. I imagine having to bid a horrible 2D on 3523, 1H 1N; 2D, 12-14, as the version I play demands 2M to have 6 cards. I've never used Gazzilli at the table and have only tested it against generated hands. I'm not sure how bad this 2+m rebid is going to be. Few of the articles I've read dwell on the difficulties of using Gazzilli or its nuances. Thanks for your response.

Thank you Mgoetze. My early searches for Gazzilli didn't reveal much and certainly no texts or ebooks that developed the bidding. What I did find and purchase on the net (from NewInBridge: ["The Topics Collection is an ongoing series on modern bridge theory with monthly publications, authored by Eric Rodwell et al. and edited by Paul Maris."]) was their topic 07. It is 14 pages of text, explanations, code and examples. Topic 07 is titled, Gazzilli a la Lauria by Lorenzo Lauria. And I also purchased LL's system off Dan Neill's site. In addition I've done a lot of reading (e.g. articles by Yuan Shen) on the bridge winners.com and other sites. I am aware that LL uses 15+ and includes 5M4+C in his 2C, I didn't claim otherwise. Also I didn't say I was trying Gazzillis Gazzilli but a version of Laurias. Have you a better source for LL's version of Gazzilli that I can research? The changes I quoted were some that I had made to LL's version. You say strange but that seems pretty clear to me. i.e. I had removed the weak 5M4+C from his code and used the spaces differently so that all 1M - 1S/1fNT; 2C code is 16+. Mgoetze, thanks for your comments.

Yes, I don't think a 5M4+C limitation is its strong point. The frequency would be low for these Roman like bids. But some other modern systems seem to use intermediate twos successfully. To me the weak 2H/2S are a small loss as I recover part of their functionality in multi-2D. And having balanced 22-23 in 2D means the opening 2NT is just 20-21. That seems to be an added advantage. Over the years I've tried weak two-suiter 2H and 2S variations. IMO they seem more trouble than they are worth. Inclusion of 11-15 5M4C in 1M openings makes for a more complex and inconsistent Gazzilli code. So its not so much the benefit of the Ritong 2H/2S openings themselves, but the load they take of other 2C sequences. Instead of G 2C being 11+ (if the hand is 5M4C), all G 2c are now 16+. This means with 1H 1S; 2C we are more like precision, having shown 16+, an opening 5+M and spade response. Resulting in a little more space compared to strong 1C - 1S, 2H sequence. Phil, thanks for the comment.

Hello all. I'm testing a version of Lorenzo Lauria's Gazzilli on my Jack computer program and that's OK. My main adaptation is to remove the 11-15 5M4C hands and use Ritong 2H/2S with multi-2D. The released weak 5M4C sequences allow me to retain my familiar 1M- 1S/1N; f1NT code. Would you have saved any database or hands with bidding that you used to practice Gazzilli? Especially hands that work (both with and without Gazzilli) and those that illustrate problems that one has to appreciate and look ahead for. I would be happy to share any of my resources. Thank you. Ash.

Hello, I'm looking for advanced 2/1 partner(s) who are prepared to do the study needed to establish a fluent partnership. I live in New Zealand so this time zone or Australia's would probably work best. However the Northern Hemisphere might also fit. I enjoy defence just as much as bidding and play. From my profile, kiwinacol: 2/1 (mostly Mike Lawrence style, but 1D 2C 100% GF; emphasis on picture bids rather than Fast Arrival) * xyz * s3NT * Puppet 3C * Walsh * (and transferWalsh over 1C, mostly Michael Goetze style, with xyz flavour) * revBergen * Gazzillii 16+ with Ritong 2H and 2S * kcb (Kantar style) * Transfer Lebebsohl * etc, Std Leads * 4ths * TON * UDCA* (also but infrequently: Simple and Super Precision (OC style) and Acol). I'm happy to try sensible, logical alternatives that have a consistent system-wide theme rather than too much artificial code. Thank you.

Hello all, I've been studying and practicing Gazzilli recently (ideas from Luria's ebook and system files that I purchased but also interesting articles in bridgewinners). I'm aiming to understand it better and hopefully add it as an option when I play with other like minded BBO'ers. As yet I'm not sure what works best by an unpassed hand, a forcing 1NT or std 1NT. If std, not forcing, how do you handle the good 10-11 hands below the 2/1 requirements, and where opener might have a good 14 HCP thats below the threshold for 2C? I need some theory on the advantages and disadvantages of Gazzilli with f1NT and std 1NT. One article I've read tells me to throw away the f1NT but doesn't say why, and I don't have any table or enough practice experience to determine an optimal strategy. A second question, Laura seems to bid 2C on 15+ and some others 17+ for Gazzilli. Its easy enough to make HCP adjustments for the other sequences based on the the HCP choice made, but which range seems to work best, and why? I guess one would have to run large simulations or analyse a large database of bid hands to answer that, but you experts would have an opinion based on experience at the table. A reply explaining why your approach is the better one would be appreciated. thank you all, Ash.

thank you gszes. Your comments makes sense to me. I'll look at that type of hand a bit differently now, Ash

Hello all, Dealer S KQ6 H AQJ8 D K8 C K532 1C 1H, ? I need a bid to show values and H fit, or a bid that shows points then fit later. Now that I look at it again 4H is OK but at the table I rejected that as it removed our bidding space and might have been made on a more distributional hand and NT might be the best denomination? I liked 2NT to show balanced shape and points but rejected it as I might never convince partner that I had 4 hearts. My actual jump shift into 2S was an attempt to force but also keep the bidding low. I didn't like 2S any more than the 2NT but had already spent too much time pondering. What bid or sequence describes this common hand the best? Thank you, Ash

Hello all, I would like to find tables or players who are 2/1 only. And or players from my own or countries near me. Is a search on profiles available? Thank you, Ash