hallway

"How hard can it be for people to pick their correct level from the options" Well, Eric , at my end of the scale it is a tad difficult. If I say Novice I will have Erkson accusing me of undo humility. If I say Beginner (BBO definition someone who has been playing less than 1 year ) - then I would be lying, it's nearer two ! If I say Intermediate - that is an exaggeration Until Uday has the time/inclination/Fred's permission- to do away with private and use the field to call it Junior or whatever I have no other option but to use Intermediate. As a workaround I use the now defunct 'Email' field (we now have 'leave a message' on BBO and BBF's Instant Messages with which to make personal contact with fellow users) to qualify my choice of Intermediate and warn would be partners . The other problem is the simple fact that the majority (I'll go so far as to say the VAST majority) of people simply DO NOT read the Rules. So they will remain in blissful ignorance of Fred's definitions for BBO Skill Levels and will, as Ben says, if they are thought of as an expert at 'home' they will choose Expert from the drop down menu. Ben, you will be pleased to know that in my little corner of the world thanks to Fred's Learn to Play Bridge 1 and 2, Fred's Bridgemaster, BBO , Wayne and your good self and friends on BBF the 'experts' you speak of are being shaken out of their comfort zone. Each week now one or other of our newcomers group grab a handful of their C points (ours is an AllGrades Club) much to their chargin. We have now reached a stage where they are wont to ask "WHO keeps telling you these things? " We name drop ofcourse ::D They have even suggested that the computer be checked just in case it was inverting the results ;D

Uday, It was happening yesterday :o

Hi Peter, We just play a very BASIC ACOL and only ever bid a 1NT opener as a WEAK 12-14 Balanced. It has been suggested that when defending against such a 1NT Opener we could use the 'Hamilton Convention" of 10 -14 2 C = single suit 6+ 2 D = both Majors 5 + 2 H = 5H and a minor 2 S = 5S and a minor 2NT = both minors 15 (pref) 16 + Double = Penalties It would be interesting to hear what others think of this method.

The actual bidding proceeded as follows: 1C (16+ Prec) 1S (8+ 5xSpades) 2S (Trump ask) 3C (5 to 1 Top Honour) 3D (D ask) 3S (Dblton or Q) 4C (Club Ask) 4S (Singleton or K) 5C (which one) 5D (Singleton) 5H (Heart ask) 6D (ace or void) 7S The Opps are still speechless :B) though it does loose some of it's power to impress when the translations are written alongside. :) Wonder what would have happened with a 4th seat 3D(6card) interpose ........ :- Would the opener have passed and the responder reacted to the interpose as a D ask and given the same answer ? When ftf and there are no convention cards supplied is one permitted to ask the meaning of each of the 12 bids as they are made ?

With the Natuaralists versus the Scientists Rematch in the offing it might be interesting to compare the two approaches to bidding the following: In real life it was the scientific approach that was used - needless to say I had absolutley no visions of any hand shapes :) The opposition was speechless ::) Non Vul Dealer S - KQ9xxx, H - Q, D - AKx, C - Axx Partner S - ATxxx, H - AJT9x, D - xx, C - x I have the actual bidding written down - with a translation :- which I will be happy to share with you later. Meanwhile - how would you bid it ? keep smiling Maureen

THE GENERATION GAP ??? ? I was taught to value my name and be proud of who I am and to extend that to all with whom I came in contact. I was taught that the greatest insult I could extend to another was not to acknowledge their name and/or to withhold mine from them. That does not mean that in this new online age I need to disclose my full identity. But I chose to retain the given name my parents bestowed upon me and as there are millions of Maureens around the world I feel no loss of privacy by disclosing it online. For me not to do so would (for me) be insulting the people who join me at a table. When people join me at a table and their profiles are a series of 'privates' I am insulted - I have no understanding of why they should wish to join me - I have this feeling of 'what are they hiding from?" "fancy being ashamed of your own name !" (When my boys reached 16 I gave them their birth certificates, told them why I chose the names I did and a statutory declaration form - should they not like the names or have reason to change them , send in the form, now was the time for them to chose to be who they wished to be) Cave_Draco sent me an IM , when I went to respond I realised I did not know his name. Here was someone being helpful and here was I about to insult him or at the very least be grossly discourteous by responding with no salutation acknowledging him. I wrote "Hi (sry I don't know your name :-[) doing so with a genuine feeling of shame and embarrassment. His response to that cured me quick enough :) I set up a table and a player CHOSE to join me as my partner, s/he was forgiving, helpful, friendly - all one could ask/hope for - I though was most uncomfortable when I had to address him/her by the rather odd username so I asked for a name - the reply 'secret' - my feelings of bon amie subsided rapidly :) I am a product of my generation ::) As BBO grows the User names will of necessity have to become more and more offbeat. At a table there are times when one wants to address a comment to a particular person - is it unreasonable to have a players profile give one a 'given' name to which they will respond . ??? After all ones fellow players have no way of knowing whether that is in fact a name that features on their birth certificate or not !!! In the world of cyber space that is not important - by using a 'real' name I perceive them as a person and one is therefore inclined to treat them with the friendly courtesy that membership of BBO demands of us. Obviously this is not something Fred can change Except ,perhaps, by changing the Profile Form to read Online Name instead of Real Name - maybe then more people would be inclined to show a 'given' name and a skill level. If you really want to be or have a reason to be a NON person you can just log on as invisible - BUT should you really be a NON person to the people YOU choose to play with ??????? The Generation Gap ??? ?

Ben and Helpers I'll be dreaming of you. 3.13 AM Sunday :'( :'( :'( - NOT a propitious time for playing Bridge - Aged Voids need their shut eye ::) [glow=red,2,300]I do most truly hope all goes well and there is a great turnout[/glow] Mayhap a future one could start at say 3pm EST = 7am, even 2pm - one could set the alarm :) There may be others residing 'downunder'. Have a great time. I shall look forward to reading ALL about it.

Oh NO !! "not an IM yet" I really didn't believe that John and I are the only BLIs - and he is more I than I :'( :'( I think maybe you should stick to the current BBO skill level chart and advertise them as : Novice / Beginner / Intermediate IMPs Tournament/s The Prize - any pairing gaining three straight WINS will be PROMOTED to Intermediate / Advanced IMPs Tournaments Only one way to find out Ben - give it a go - set a date 8) M BTW readers to send Ben an IM just click on his user name (inquiry) his profile will come up then just click 'send this member a message' alternatively click on your 'messages' at the top of the screen and select 'newmsg' - he really does want to hear from you

Great idea Ben I hope your INSTANT MESSAGE box is overflowing with positive responses (John & I can't be the only BLI members of BBF ---- are we ? ::) ) I agree with John's comments - also (a) Reasons for more Time for playing the Boards - BNs are less likely to claim early , if at all. But I believe Fred/Uday are going to change the way the timing works so this may become a non issue. (:) Kibitzing - it is intimidating knowing that people are watching - turning down/switching off the speakers helps but you still know they are there :-[. Is it possible to have Kibbing Disallowed while still giving the Directors access to the tables ? How on earth you will determine whether or not those that register are indeed genuine BNs / BLIs I have no idea - the little grey cells fail me :D . One would suppose that players of some recognised ability would not want the frustration of playing in such company. Maybe once would be enough ;D for any that do - they could find themselves in an awful quagmire if they paid too much attention to my bidding and as for deciphering my count, attitude & suit preferences ......... ::) I'm looking forward to the challenge Ben .. it should be great fun.

A couple more points in respect of his own computer - 1. Tell him not to have an Instant Messenger Service running concurrently. I got rid of Yahoo Messenger altogether - solved a # of issues. 2. If he has Upgraded his Virus Scanner recently get him to check that bits of the old one haven't been left behind - can cause a lot of stress when online gaming. Tell him to persevere - all good things come to those who strive and BBO is the best on the Net. B)

[glow=red,2,300]OFCOURSE !! there is INTEREST[/glow]

Dear Wayne, [move]THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU[/move] Such inadequate words to convey all we wish to. Twelve months ago you volunteered to spend an hour or so each week to help our embryo BBO Acol group to improve our grasp of the basics of Bridge. Almost instantly that became a two hourly, twice weekly committment scheduled ,not to suit yourself but, at times that best suit your Mentees on either side of the globe. This can mean a 7am weekday start or a 9pm Sunday start for you. That you should do that for us for a couple of months was more than we had a right to hope for . That you should still be doing it for us ONE YEAR later...........words fail me ......... [move]THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU[/move] The effects of your Mentoring on BBO reach far beyond Online Bridge. Such sessions are also a power for good at the real life Club level. It is a fact that a 20 - 50% retention of any given years trainees is considered a success. Twelve months ago my class was in danger of disintergrating (Spanish lessons were muted as one excuse :) ) THEN along came WAYNE 8) You provided us with the much needed help to understand and expand our lessons. Our "Acol Bridge Basics (with the Wayne Factor) now covers some 20 pages ::) and our "WAYNE SEZ" segment of our weekly practice Sessions has become a standard. And it's true the entire class -100% of us - are still actively playing (well attending ;D ) Bridge. Significantly too of last year's class there is only one survivor and she took up our invitation to become a Wayne (BBO) devotee. So on behalf of both your Online and Offline Devotees [move]THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU[/move] [move] :-* :) :-* :D :-* :D :-* :D :-* :D :-* :D :-*[/move]

Y E S please Luis. As Laird (I think it was he) commented - we all think differently. What makes these Forums so special is that here we have the opportunity to gain insight into the different ways people approach the same issue/s. We can then assimilate that which we find appropriate to our own way of thinking. I realise that these threads have the tendancy to take on a life of their own. In this the Beginners and Intermediate Forum there is the opportunity for these threads to become 'learning tools' for future 'generations' of bridge players. More and more new bridge players will come to the game through the use of Internet/Computer learning rather than through Classes/Book learning. To be really useful references each thread needs to (in this Forum) stay true to topic. I would like all Posters (when here in the B/I Forum) to ask themselves two questions :- (a) does what I want to comment on require a new thread ? (:) would it be more appropriate for me to post it in one of the other Forums? :o I have left these comments here in this thread because it has already meandered along this pathway. ::) BUT Luis if you can find the article you speak of please post it seperately so that it does not become buried here. Cheers, Maureen ps Laird is no longer in the Dog Box ;D

John ! JOhn!!! JOHN !!!!!!!! you have RUINED my thread :'( :'( :'( Just when I had got 'the guys' giving us BLI's USEFUL , BASIC advice we could UNDERSTAND you have to go off at a tangent and start talking Advanced stuff. All of which is incredibly fascinating but is no more use than ornament to those of us who still struggle to keep track of those 'missing' 26 cards. I suppose you will tell us you started running before you walked before ........ Talking of things back to front :D and your problem with 4441 Zzzzzzz. They kept me awake because I kept getting stuck in the 5's, so I tried starting at 13, 12 1 da da - no problem now ;D I'm fast asleep before I get to the 5's 8) Now guys, starting my counting practising at Table 2 was not what you could call a success :) Dealer - 1C with a ring round it !! - deep breath, be brave M you'll just have to ask , you can't 'count' if you don't know what it means :-. Well there was a poliferation of these things throughout the evening and asking was of no help ... well that is not in respect of assisting me in MY quest - the couldbes, maybes, not necessarilies, shortages (6 out of 13 is a shortage !?! mmm, true it is less than half ! but there was me thinking 0 to an unattractive 3 - lol) etc. etc. it was all too much it just scrambled my poor old brain . So to Plan C/D - when Kibitzing and when Dummy And talking of 'scrambling' Ben, you didn't explain what a 'scrambling 2NT' is ? ??? (new thread please) Oh, and while I'm showing my ignorance of essential matters would you please start another thread and call it " A Beginners Guide to "Balance/ing" . :-*

Ben (Inquiry) advised in another thread - quote - "Keep up the counting patterns. If it doesn't work as you try to go to sleep - try it at the table" Been there and done that Ben :D - I was sure it was you who answered my prayers at the time :) After three - almost - sleepless nights of trying to follow Ben's sage advice off to Bridge I went. Now we (the newbies) decided sometime back that a good defensive strategy would be to arrive early and nab the seats at the Directors table. The logic being that by starting off in the Lion's Den when the bell clanged and E/W were exhorted to "MOVE Please" we would have escaped and be free to roam without fear, furthermore at the start of the evening s/he would be freshened, fed and watered ergo at their most benign ;D And so Round One (my P informed me later that I had gone off into a trancelike state ::) ) I decided to try this 'thinking of hand shapes'. suddenly S/he who has their name upon the wall says, "WHAT !! , are you doing " ???? I, too stunned to think of a suitably witty response settled for the simple truth , " trying to figure out the shape of your hand " LHO, "Don't be ridiculous !!" S/he who must be obeyed, "WELL - what is it ??" I (with a beseeching glance skywards and a fervent prayer - "Ben & BBO please don't fail me now " :- ) and with what I hoped was a calm and assured manner, smiled chamingly and said , "5, 2, 4, 2" BINGO, EUREKA, JACKPOT, HALLELUIAH !!!!!!! ;D ;D RHO's back snapped upright, the hand shot up, the eyes locked on and the eyebrows headed for the hairline, LHO's chin trembled upon the chest and P's mouth hung open with eyes the size of saucers. I sat silently whilst thinking , "yes, yes, YES !!!! [glow=red,2,300]I L O V E BBO[/glow]" The cone of silence remained until "E/W MOVE Please" rang forth. Sad to say all subsequent attempts at assessing hand shapes failed - dismally LOL - still there's always tonight. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE This week, however, I think discretion may be the better part of valour , I'll start practising at Table 2 ;D

#1 Is there some 'simple' criteria one should apply to determine whether or not to bid over a Weak Two Opener ? In 2nd seat ? In 4th seat ? I assume the Weak 2 to be 6 - 10 hcp with a 6 card suit with at least 2 Honours and no more than 1 x Ace or King in an outside suit. So would passing in the 4th seat after 2S P P with 12hcp and a 5 card H suit A10952 be a cause for a degree of tetchiness ??? by partner ? 3H :- B) or Dbl ? or ?? [move]It takes strong nerves to play with a Beginner ;D - or maybe a dram or two or three [/move] #2 The bidding goes 1S 2C 2S P P X P ? 4th seat has Kxx: xxxx : xxxx : xx Do you show the D or the H's ? (equally miserable) or would it be wrong to assume that P has a good reason for wanting to take the Opps out of their 2S ? Looking forward to your advice - thx in advance. Maureen PS - Ben...... reciting hand shapes does not lull me off to sleep :D but I shall persevere ::)

Hi Julie, You can kind of do what you suggest now. Set the table for Permission required - but also Under Table options type: Please KIBITZ - THEN request permission to play. ergo IF 8) they do so you have them where the sitting players can 'see' them and if it is the Opps who need a partner s/he can conduct their own 'interview'. While you are doing that do as John does and hold the seat "reserved". Where there is a will there is usually a way ;) Cheers M

[move]THANK YOU VERY MUCH [/move] I am sure this info will be of inestimable value to all the Beginners who take the time to read, absorb and yes - practice, practice, practice. Maureen "Knowledge is of two kinds - we know the subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it" - Samuel Johnson

2/1 - good advice I'm sure, BUT surely before one can practice anything one needs to be shown the how, why and what it is one is supposed to be practising :- This is the Beginners Forum so please cast your mind back and share with us the means by which you mastered the art of keeping track of every card in the pack. Did someone show you? , did you read about a method that made sense to you ? or did you devise a method all your own ? Share with me and I promise I'll practice, practice, and practice :) Most of the time I can keep track of the trump suit and on a good day even know the whereabouts of that side suit I fancy BUT it's those last two critters at the end of the hand - eenie, meenie, minney, mo and like the supermarket queues I have a panchant for choosing the wrong one :'( Now if I could do as the Dragon does...... And Dragon ...... "Basic plays like Elimination & Throw In require counting, the first time you see it done it's like magic " BASIC PLAYS , Dragon ????? Basic for an Expert maybe ........ (this is the Beginners Forum) Care to share ?? Then when we are Kibbing we will be able to see the magic happening. Knowing the what and how of them may be just the motivation we need to practice, practice, practice COUNTING. ::)

This Skill Level question is surely a vexed issue B) Yzerman - "Student" sounded good but Ben blew that notion 'out of the water' 13 April :'( - I guess he's right, one is forever a 'student' no matter how skilled one becomes. Really and truly though the current 'lower' (as in less skilled) levels DO need to be redefined Private - what is that , why is that ?? Everyone can be as private as they please with no name, no contact, no country BUT surely if their intention when joining a Bridge site is to play Bridge they have a duty to their fellow players to give some indication of their bridge playing ability. ::) Please Fred - do away with that designation and use the free field for me and my fellow 'voids' You could then have: Novice - new to bridge, keen to learn Beginner - have attended lessons, been playing for less than 2 years. [glow=]JUNIOR[/glow] - enjoying the game, teach me more leave the rest as is (I'll reserve comment until I get there ;D - no danger - too late she cried :'( )

Took your advice Ben, (reply #8) WOW that worked !! - had to take my glasses off ::) My wee creature has gone :'( :'( too John - maybe they've run off together :) :)

From my computer I get the following: Editing Profile Comment (a) using single BackSpace strokes removes the text but when one logs back on - hey presto it is back again (:) highlight all and use Delete away it goes - but only for that session. © highlight all and BackSpace -[glow=red,2,300]success[/glow] - it's gone for good :) (didn't do that for John , though - a tricky wee 'bug' ::) ) Guess it's just a case of finding out what works for you - no one is ever beaten unless he gives up the fight (Wolfe)

LOL Laird :) I'm the one who needs taking by the hand and being shown the way - for goodness sake I don't even know whether I'm N, S, E or W :-[ At a normal table, yes, I pretty much know that if I sit in the North seat and stay put my partner & I will be N/S - but you see it gets a bit tricky for 'aged voids' at a Teaching Table - kibbing/playing/kibbing , partners chopping and changing - I lose my way :'( and nowhere on the screen does one get a hint. I was puzzled - no one else gets lost at the table - obviously they all know something I don't :( Thank goodness for John G's Help File - even so it has taken a bit of research - C : Compass ........no help there D : Direction ........no E : East ........no L : Lost ........no, I'm still up the garden path :'( N : North ........no S : South Eureka ;D I was getting worried - only had W left on the list of possibles ! I have the seat set for Declarer at the bottom of the screen. But that will now change ..... [glow=red,2,300]YOU WON'T GET LOST AT A TEACHING TABLE IF YOU SET SOUTH AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN [/glow] 8) ::) ............ now is east to the right or the left :)

It's the old story - the more you have the more you want! I would be interested in feedback from members (all 480 of you ;D) on whether or not you would USE (i.e. read, take on board and apply ) the information posted to such a Forum if John T was to set it up . If the answer is a resounding "yes please" we would then have to do some arm twisting to find a/some knowledgable person/s to volunteer to post info to the forum at regular (weekly ?) intervals. And, ofcourse, all members could post any interesting hint they have found out for themselves - share and share alike. I know we should all read and refer back to John G's great new help file (Couldn't help but notice only 34 of 481 members have read my post entitled New Help File :'( ) There are a myriad of little helpful 'tricks', shortcuts etc. that one may have read about but tend to forget. e.g. a frustrated user recently pleaded 'how do I get rid of all these chat bubbles ?" " Just press Esc", I replied - "Oh, TY, TY :)" , was the grateful response. e.g. how many use the Chat Room (via Training Rooms button) to discuss any fascinating aspects of hands they have just played ? to discuss their bidding strategies before setting up a table to play ? etc. OR do most people assume that because it is in the Training Room section it is for the use of Teacher/Pupil ? , that one needs to be an Expert to use it ? There must be HEAPS of interesting things about BBO that we (members) just don't take advantage of. If this topic was confined to it's own Forum it would serve as a useful reference for all newcomers and make it easy to look up (for those of us (aged voids) with short term memories ::) ) Well - should we ask ? :-/ :-/

Thank you Rado, You have affirmed pretty much what we (my little group of BLNs) had decided - especially when playing IMPS, set the contract first. Having said that Fred & Wayne advise all BLNs to concentrate on making their contract first and take any overtricks as a bonus. :( We have recently witnessed (while Kibbing) a couple of hands where the contract seemed safe only to see Declarer seemingly 'lose the plot' and go very light. The ensuing abject apologies showed, though, there had been a purpose - trying for the overtrick . The result , however, was seeing the IMP counter take a nosedive. :'( Your advice in action :o Cheers