XYZ In the 2 sequences above, I think sign-off by opener after 2♥ is… PASS. 2nt by opener is constructive and says MAX of 12-14. Responder who has stretched (me?) can then pass or rebid 3♥ if he has 6, suit quality not good enough for a jump to 3♥ after the 2♣ relay. Let’s say: Kx A108xxx QJx xx Compared to Kx AQJxxx Jxx xx You can read my extensive article on Internet (XYZ), article that was published on BBO some years ago. However, extensive doesn’t mean comprehensive, as bridge players can add or modify the structure to their taste. Think about this sequence : 1x 1y 1nt 4nt quantitative How can opener know if it is 18 or 19? First of all, responder with 18 and NO FIT, KNOWING opener has MAX 14, should bid only 3nt. That leaves us with 19. Bidding 4nt seems ok, but why not keep some safety in the sequence? Your partner (not you obviously) may have opened with a horrible 12. Why not use this: 1x 1y 1nt 2♣ relay 2♦ forced 3nt = P, I have 19 balanced Why play 4nt when you can play 3? This reminds me of stubborn players who refuse to play Drury. Where is the logic in preferring to play 3♠ instead of 2♠ ??? ☺ With 20 balanced, responder just jumps to 4nt after 1nt by opener. Have fun, xyz is the most fun thing to play. Fluff