frisbee

I do not play on MSN, but, if I follow your clicks, I do not make it as far as the login screen. The initial screen does warn that MSN might not be compatible with all browsers. I use Firefox (discarded IE a decade ago), but with a number of security features that might be blocking content on the pop-up window (which I absolutely refuse to use). Very easy for me to ignore this problem, so good luck in finding a solution.

Thanks for the programming slice, barmar. Now I better understand why GIB is so poor in spots. 6000+ lines of code is small, at least in a compiled language. I do not want to suggest re-starting from scratch (which is usually the most efficient method to improve a program that has been under continuing development for years), but at least try to convert to a more useful programming language.

My guess is that South did not understand that his partner was showing a balanced 18-19 HCP. Since his hand is already limited by his 1♥ bid, he is strong enough to bid 2♠ over 2♦ (showing more ♥s than ♠s) or to simply drive to a 4♥ contract. North had his bids. If North were to cuebid 2♦ instead of bidding 1NT, he would be showing a very different hand ... game forcing opposite a zero-count. Same problem with a 3♥ bid, North does not have the ♥ support that he would be promising. 1NT is the correct rebid.

In a standard ACBL GCC (General Convention Chart) tournament, Stolen Bid doubles are allowed and must be Alerted ... note that you "Alert", you do not announce "Transfer". The normal (ACBL GCC) meaning of the Double (except over 2♣) is Penalty, so the Double must be Alerted when it is not Penalty. You can play Stolen Bid doubles, but make certain that both partners understand what the subsequent bids mean ... too often, both partners know what the first bid means, but neither partner is certain what the next bids mean, which is a good reason not to play that convention. Playing Stolen Bid doubles, when the auction goes: 1NT - (2♦) - 2♥ ... and you mean the 2♥ bid as a Transfer to ♠, it must be Alerted by Partner. As others mention, it is debatable whether Stolen Bid doubles are useful or not. The last survey that I saw (maybe a year ago) showed that the great majority of good, experienced tournament players used the Double as Penalty and most inexperienced players used the Double as a Transfer (Stolen Bid).

If this were a Goulash event, I would dislike West's Double and I would have no strong objection to East's bid (but I would Double instead of bidding 7♣). If this were a regular event, then I would disagree completely with both East-West bids. I do not consider this Double of 2♥ to be strong enough to be a penalty double showing ♥s. Also, when a Double is supposed to be a penalty double of a two-suiter, the Doubler needs stuff in both suits. Here, all the Double did was encourage North to make a great bid of 6♠ to put maximum pressure on the opponents. Assessing blame: 70% West and 70% East ... yes, that is more than 100%, but both bids were poor choices.

If my understanding of this convention/sequence is correct, I would suggest that the 2♠ bidder type "beginning of an asking sequence" in the Explain box. Then Partner will bid 2NT and type "Forced" in the Explain box. That would satisfy me and I could ask relevant questions, if necessary, since I would now understand what is happening. (Again, this is problematic only in non-ACBL BBO games, because this convention/sequence is not allowed in ACBL games.)

You can type what your bids mean down in the chat section (where the arrows are) and then easily send that to both opponents (your partner will not see your description) ... at least you can on the DOS version, I do not know about the BBO web version. I see too many problems with simply typing "Transfer" and would definitely explain the bid more completely. You must explain to the opponents everything that your non-standard bids mean. Let's not turn BBO into a poker game.

In an ACBL tournament, Partner would "Alert" the 2♠ response (and not explain the Alert unless asked). Of course, in an ACBL tournament (following GCC), you would not be allowed to use your home-grown 2♦ special opener. On BBO, if I understand your auction correctly, the 2♠ bidder should provide a much more descriptive explanation since it is clearly not standard (or allowed?). As mgoetze mentions, this should be posted elsewhere for what to do in a BBO tournament.

Yes, Steve, playing Results, you certainly belong in 3NT instead of 4♠. In a tournament, I would be rewarding such good fortune by assigning a Monitor to watch that Pair. This hand was reported to try to have an apparent programming error corrected.

I have been asked to post (within reason) clear bidding errors in Robot tournaments, so here is another ... [hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn|frisbee,~~M38652,~~M38650,~~M38651|st||md|4S34JKAH5KADQAC37J%2CS9TH2479D3JKC4TKA%2CS2678HTQD89TC2568%2C|rh||ah|Board%2010|sv|b|mb|p|mb|2C|an|Strong%20two%20club%20--%2019%2B%20HCP%3B%2023%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%202N|mb|p|mb|2D|an|2D%20bid%20waiting%20--%20forcing%20to%202N%20|mb|p|mb|2N|an|Balanced%20minimum%20--%202-5%20!C%3B%202-5%20!D%3B%202-5%20!H%3B%202-5%20!S%3B%2022-24%20HCP%3B%2023%2B%20total%20points|mb|p|mb|3C|an|Stayman%20--%203%2B%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|3S|an|2-5%20!C%3B%202-5%20!D%3B%202-3%20!H%3B%204-5%20!S%3B%2022-24%20HCP%3B%2023%2B%20total%20points|mb|p|mb|3N|an|4%20!H%3B%203-%20!S%3B%203-7%20HCP%20|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|H2|pc|HT|pc|HJ|pc|HA|pc|SA|pc|S9|pc|S6|pc|S5|pc|SK|pc|ST|pc|S2|pc|SQ|pc|S3|pc|H4|pc|S7|pc|D2|pc|D8|pc|D4|pc|DQ|pc|DK|pc|CK|pc|C2|pc|C9|pc|C3|pc|CA|pc|C5|pc|CQ|pc|C7|pc|H9|pc|HQ|pc|H3|pc|H5|pc|S8|pc|D7|pc|S4|pc|H7|pc|D9|pc|D5|pc|DA|pc|D3|pc|SJ|pc|CT|pc|C6|pc|H8|pc|HK|pc|C4|pc|C8|pc|H6|pc|CJ|pc|DJ|pc|DT|pc|D6|]400|300[/hv] Clearly, the Robot should bid 4♠ over 3♠ instead of 3NT (because of the known 8+ card Major suit fit). The description (which you can confirm if you must insist on clicking on the picture) describes the 3NT bid as showing 4 ♥s and no more than 3 ♠s. If that is what the Robot actually held, then I would definitely agree with the 3NT bid. Here, however, the Robot holds 4 ♠s and only 2 ♥s. I hope that GIB does not peek, since 3NT is cold against any defense and 4♠ can be defeated with any reasonable defense, but that is the only rationale that I can imagine for the Robot's 3NT bid.

Partner is unlikely to have more than one useful card in this auction, so leading ♠s can do no good (unless the Kxx is in dummy and Partner holds AQxxx ... not something that I would play for, unless I could peek). Hope that Partner has a useful card in a minor; a small ♣ has a slight advantage, because Partner's Ten will be useful.

Bbradley62, thank you for understanding my comments. lycier, perhaps there is a language misunderstanding somewhere, but I was very specific in my comments. Yes, I played in that tournament. No, I did NOT have the specific auction that I showed; mine was different. I cannot post the auction that I kibitzed. All the details that you requested were given in my original comments, except for the hand diagram (that, as you mentioned, BBO does not allow anyone to post) that you want to see. I am retired now and have the time to enjoy tournament bridge again. If there is a need for programmers for GIB Robots, I could be interested, but my strength is with number-crunching languages such as Fortran (which has always been and still remains the preferred language for mission critical applications) ... I have zero interest in scripting languages.

lycier, as I mentioned, that was not my auction; I was kibitzing another player. The Robot hand, the Robot bids and the Robot descriptions were given in my initial post. I do not see why the hand of the Robot's partner would matter, if that is what you are requesting. If someone is able to show that particular auction and fancy hand diagram, they are welcome to try; I cannot.

I could certainly go back to find other hands that I and others have posted and commented on in this GIB forum, but I am not going to waste the time. Robots mis-bidding ♣ (even with voids) has been discussed on several occasions. I will now retire from this flame-throwing fruitless argument.

Stephen, I posted here to show the hand in question. Clearly, the Robot's 3♣ and 4♣ bids were inappropriate. That programming logic needs to be corrected. (Let us stick with that, instead of the side issues I mentioned ... only an attempt to further explain this was a continuing problem ... Robots bid ♣ by default much too often.)

Unfortunately, Robots often play random cards when following suit and you can make impossible contracts. It can be very annoying when you properly play a squeeze (and expect a good result) to see that it is only an average because, at other tables, a Robot threw away a potentially winning card (here the ♦8). You just have to remember that the Robots are poor bidders and poor card players. Sometimes that works to your advantage; other times, not.

Stephen, yes, Fit Drury is allowed under GCC (which the Robot described, as I mentioned). But, Robots bid ♣ in other situations as a forcing bid (as I mentioned, 3♣ and 4♣ on the actual hand). Those (forcing relay) bids are NOT allowed by GCC unless they "specifically" describe something (and are alerted as such), they cannot be used ONLY as a general force. While I agree that it can be necessary from time to time to bid ♣ (without a long ♣ suit) because there is no other option, the Robots appear to default to bidding ♣ even when descriptive bids are available. Personally, I play (and teach) Thurston's version of 2/1. Paul's comment is the same, with ♠Qxx ♥AQxx ♦QJx ♣AKx ... Over 1♠ what do you bid? ... (you cannot bid 2♥ because you have only four and you cannot bid 3NT [15-17] because you are too strong) ... so you are forced to bid 2♣, which is not terrible because "no one really wants to play in ♣". GCC makes allowances for that 2♣ bid, but not when the Robots bid 2♣ with a void (as an unpassed hand). And, yes, GCC allows Opener to rebid 2♣ with a 4=5=2=2 hand after 1♥ - 1NT, without an Alert. I have been working with and programming computers for 40+ years, so I am certainly not a technophobe. But, I had no luck in the past posting via the method you mention. Perhaps because I do not use the BBO browser version. Perhaps because I do not use IE or Javascript that BBO often requires (on the plus side, however, I do not see the BBO advertisements that can be very distracting when trying to play bridge). I should also mention that BBO does not save MP games on my computer, but it does save IMP games on my computer. This was a MP tournament.

Hi lycier -- I showed tonight's BBO tournament number and hand number in the title. I do not know how to link to that. I showed the Robot's actual hand in the top line. The auction that I showed was not my own (I did not bid 3♦ over 3♣), but another player's auction. My local kibitzers would have also bid grand slams after the Robot's two cuebids. My 2♠ bid was a full reverse as the Robot expects (instead of the HSGT that I prefer to play after Fit Drury with real partners). This appears to be a Robot programming error that I have mentioned on a few occasions, but has never been properly fixed. The Robot likes to bid ♣ when not holding ♣. What is worse, on this particular hand, is that it does not have the controls in ♣ that its descriptions says that it has.

Robot (as North) holds: ♠K76 ♥Q75 ♦KQ64 ♣T76 In first seat, Robot passes. 1♥ by Partner. 2♣ by Robot. Double by Opponent. 2♠ by South. Then the insanity begins ... .... P - P - 1♥ P - 2♣ - Dbl - 2♠ P - 3♣ - P - 3♦ P - 4♣ ... I will not bother to show the rest of this insane auction. 2♣ was alerted as Drury (technically, it is Fit Drury, but ok). 3♣ was described as showing the ♣A. Really? I do not see it. 4♣ was described as showing the ♣AK. Really? I must be blind. Not surprisingly, some Souths drove to impossible grand slams. No need to show the South hand. This is a continuing complaint ... Robots insist on bidding the ♣suit (in this auction, 3♣ and 4♣) when they want to make a forcing bid, whether they have ♣ or not. As has been mentioned several times before, this is NOT allowed by the ACBL GCC (General Convention Chart), which the Robots are required to follow in ACBL tournaments. Please correct this continuing programming error. In this auction, the first and the second round ♣ controls the Robot promised were in the opponents hands. Thank you for listening.

After P - 1H -/- 2C - ??, Opener has other choices when playing Fit Drury. Bidding 2D to simply show a good opener is a poor option. Many of us play that 2D, 2S and 3C by Opener are Help Suit Game Tries (and 3D, 3S and 4C by Opener are Splinter Bids). If you want to use Fit Drury to improve your contracts, use the full system and not an abbreviated version.

As a purist, let me remind everyone that we are discussing "Fit Drury" and not "Drury", since you are guaranteeing a trump fit. Yes, there is a box on the ACBL convention card to confirm this although many players do not check it because they do not understand what it means. (The original "Drury" convention did not guarantee a trump fit, but most players today play that it does and do not recognize that there is a difference.) As for what I would bid, it is a toss-up between 2H and 2C depending on style and agreements. I would not disagree with my partner's choice. I hope that we all agree that bidding 1S over 1H is a very bad bid.

If playing 2/1, I would refuse to open this hand 1♥. If playing SAYC, I would not open 1♥ unless Partner insists that this is an opening hand. To me, this is a very clear 2♥ opener in 3rd seat if not unfavorable vulnerability. I would not strongly object if Partner opened 2♥ in 4th seat.

I have been known to cross out all 2-suited takeouts from my partners convention card (and mine) if s/he insists that it can include a 5422 shape. I will make allowances for 5431 with a maximum, but not with a shapeless 5422. Makes it very difficult to reach the correct contract (or to find the correct defense) when you cannot trust Partner to have the distribution that was promised.

If playing 2/1, bidding the slam is relatively easy ... Responder must bid 2♣ instead of 2NT (Jacoby) to show the "source of tricks". Important to understand this concept. 1♠ - 2♣ 2♥ - 3♠ 4♦ - 4NT etc. 2♣ establishes the game force. 2♥ shows 5+ ♠s and 4+♥. Any strength. 3♠ shows very good ♠ support and is slammish with a source of tricks in ♣s. [2♠ would show 2-3 card ♠ support. 4♠ would show a minimum 2/1 hand.] 4♦ is a cuebid, cooperating with Responder. Responder needs to hear no more to launch into an Ace or Keycard asking sequence. As others have mentioned, the problem is that Responder should not bid Jacoby 2NT with such a powerful hand. You lose control of the auction when Opener shows the weak hand by jumping to 4♠. Do not fault the Jacoby 2NT convention for not finding this slam. The convention should not have been used. As an aside, when playing 2/1, Opener is not supposed to open any 11-count that he wants to. You are playing 2/1, not Standard American. With ♠Axxxx ♥Qxxx ♦Ax ♣Jx, you have a borderline 1♠ opening bid in StdAm which should be passed when playing 2/1. Heresy, I know ... but, again, you are not playing StdAm. If you insist that you can open this hand 1♠, then change your convention card to read StdAm instead of 2/1.

My 2/1 style is similar to whereagles, where 2NT is a "tell me more" bid. I would normally stop in 3NT as well, but if my partner and I were bidding aggressively (because we were behind in a Team game, for example), we might find the slam ... 1♠ - 2♣ 2♠ - 2NT 3♣ - 3♦ 3NT - [Ace or Keycard continuation] 2♣ is 100% forcing to game, no exceptions. 2♠ might be only a 5-card suit (5=3=3=2 or a bad 6=4). 2NT is similar to 4th Suit Forcing in 1/1 or Standard American auctions. 3♣ shows 3+card support, therefore likely has a 6+card ♠-suit. [With 5 ♠s and honor-3rd ♣s, Opener is supposed to raise 2♣ to 3♣.] 3♦ shows a NT stopper and asks for a ♥ stopper. 3NT shows a full ♥ stopper. [3♥ over 3♦ would show a partial NT stopper, asking for help.] Responder is strong enough to launch into his systemic slam try to find 2 Aces and to gamble on 6♣.