Cromlyn

Playing SAYC partner opens 1♦ and I have a very weak hand with seven points and a very weak four card spade suit. I respond one spade and partner now bids a new suit at the two level. (a) Is it forcing if the suit is lower ranking, eg clubs (b) Is it forcing if the suit is higher ranking, eg hearts As an Acol player I could pass (a) but not (b). With (b) I would be forced to give a preference bid to one of partner's suits because with seven points I could not bid 2NT (Acol demands that I hold at least ten and a half points to make this bid). When I am playing SAYC could I bid 2NT with only seven points?

You pickup a partner and he or she has no information on their profile. You ask what they are playing but there is no response. Probably they don't speak English. What do you play? Do you assume they will play your profile? Do you assume they are playing SAYC? If you are in the Acol room do you assume they are playing Acol? After all they might have wandered into it by accident and not know they are in that area?

I wondered did this post refer to the site as a whole and not just the forum? If so not jumping off the table in the middle of a hand would be my number one piece of advice. Not saying the rude things you would like to say to a pickup partner would be my second piece. Thirdly trying to play reasonably quickly is important because your partner and opponents cannot see you and begin to wonder if you are still there!!!

As I got quite a bit of help trying to change from Acol to SAYC with a previous post I thought, now that I have got into a bit of trouble to ask for some help again. My very nice partner disappeared after a bidding sequence which I was anything but proud of! The auction was uncontested and started okay with 1♦ from partner to which I responded 1♠ however, when he or she rebid 2♥ I did not know if that was forcing in SAYC (as it would be in Acol)? I really really did not want to bid again on my eight point hand but as I didn't know if it was forcing and had no support for either partner's suits I made the most awful bid of 3♣ and had no idea what partner would make of it? The whole thing was a disaster, below is the bidding and the two hands and I would be grateful to know if the 2♥ was (a) FORCING? and (b) what I should have done? 1♦: 1♠ 2♥: 3♣ 3♠: 3NT Partner's Hand: Q6 K10852 AK1092 K My Hand: A982 3 76 A98763

Another emotion which works on the latest BBO version :ph34r: = :ph3r:

The bidding went: 1♥ 2♣ 2NT p 3♦? My partner opens with 1♥ which is Acol and only shows a 4 card major and I have the awkward bid of 2NT to make, I held four clubs, 4 rags in diamonds, doubleton heart and Qxx in spades. My natural response was going to be 2♣. If I had three card support in hearts or four spades I would have doubled. I don't expect everyone to agree with me for not showing my four rags in diamonds but my question is do you agree with my partner who said her 3♦ bid was not forcing and that I should have passed it? I thought it was forcing, showing extra values, showing the heart suit was five and I bid 3NT - contract going one down. Is there any system in which it would not be forcing?

If your partnership agreement is to show at least four cards in an unbid major could opener not bid Double over the 2♠ intervention? I am still unhappy with opener bidding a minor suit before a five card major suit, especially with only minimum high card points. If the action had been uncontested I would have thought a heart rebid would show a very powerful hand with 17+ hcp?

Both you and your partner are giving each other the wrong information. Your partner opens 1♦ and this implies that no five card major is held. When the opponent makes a jump bid you have nowhere to go, you do not know that partner has a major but you can show partner values by bidding a double (not for penalites as you have not had a chance to find a fit).

'Even in stone age Acol, this is definitely 100% forcing.' posted by mr1303 I have to disagree with mr1303 and I quote from 'All About Acol' by Cohen and Lederer (many Acol player's 'bible') where on page 113 it gives an example of a hand which is opened 1H and goes on to state 'a simple rebid of 2♦ over 2♣ could be passed'

As I am struggling to get to grips with the SAYC and what is actually played in the Main Room. I think there is confusion with the 2/1 system which does play this 2♣ bid as absolutely forcing. This would not be forcing in Precision or Acol either. However, in Acol in particular, things do change and conventions get added on and bids like doubles change out of all recognition! I will be very interested to see what our experts say on this topic :blink:

Thank you Helene_t and Wank for your replies. They are very helpful and I will give SAYC or something like it a try. No doubt I will have other questions on this topic as I play this new system. Thank you too Hog for taking the trouble to reply. And yes Hog you have got it in one! (Have you seen how often the Acol Room is empty? There are always players in the Main Room so I have got to get in there and give it a go!) If anyone out there has anything to add which would help me avoid pitfalls please add to this post. :o

As an Acol player I would like to be able to play SAYC. I have looked at the information on the topic on BBO and bought the pocket guide to SAYC. However, in practice I find it the following difficult: 1 What is forcing in SAYC? 2 How to handle no trump hands in the 12 to 14 point range? (Eg 1D: 2C: 2NT = 12 pts???) 3 How doubles are played? 4 In Acol an intervention at the three level would only be weak if it was bid two levels higher than necessary - in SAYC is it the level rather than the jump that denotes the strength of the intervention? 5 4NT Response- In my SAYC book in says that 2NT: 4NT = is invitational (Acol uses this too and calls it the Quantitative NT) but in practice I find that some SAYC players use this as Blackwood. As you do not always have time to clarify everything in a pick-up game what do you presume the 4NT to be?