sigh i hate it when i am contrary to the world but i will go ahead and try to justify my cowardice (pass) anyway. Say p has Kxxx void Kxxxx Axxx. We have pretty decent play for 3n. However, most players I know will x 3h with that hand so p does NOT have that good of a hand. That means the upside of bidding seems much much smaller than we like to think. Giving p a random 8 count, and comparing it with our hand, shows 3n to have a pretty small % chance of making. I realize this will score poorly on some hands but getting those positive scores no matter at imps or mp keeps me from getting slaughtered. Its not just that but it seems so RARE when the cards are going my way so pass caters to the pessimist in me. STAY WELL