doofik

Yo Cute Stuff: Now it's my turn to make you blush, because you deserve it:-) I'm not very eloquent so to the point: I miss your "why??????????????????? why why why???????????????" I miss your "arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" And it feels like something's missing when I log on and "malucy" is missing. And no one else will ever call me "goofy doofy" and I miss it. With affection, Jola

Dog, After someone read my post in this thread, the person said to me "you're tough" - I'm still not sure that it was a complement:-) I guess what I'm trying to achieve is to give a break to moderators of this site, to give Mike time to think things over, and for everyone to regain some perspective. Hope you have not taken any offense to my previous post. If you did, I apologize. Jola

Dog, Why do you feel compelled to explain your position in these trying times? Do you think there might be a retribution if you champion both clubs? And I agree with you, all us would suffer a great loss if Aba or Mike would leave or if AbaLucy were to close down, never to be resurrected. However, as a person I'm very fond of has said on several occasions "JFK got replaced in 37 minutes, do you think there's anyone who's irreplaceable?" And I tend to agree with her. If your info is correct, I don't think it's a matter of begging Mike to come back. I think that he needs a day or two to reconsider and come to an honest, unbiased decision. Jola

I think that while debating the freedom of speech we're forgetting the purpose of BBO and its forum. This is not to be a political forum, a smear campaign forum, but a place to discuss bridge. Some may say that I'm hypocritical with my post on Monday. In fact I regret having posted and having said what I said, but that ire in me just doesn't quit. And words, while allegedly can't hurt, do hurt and hurt very deeply. And it's my belief that one should always say what one means, and mean what one says; but that's just me, a simple woman from a village. It is also my fervent belief that anyone who wants to quit ought to be able to do so. Don't criticize, don't send any parting shots, just quit, whether it's a club or BBO. Everything else becomes childish. Jola

I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here. However, I'm a proponent of pleasant BBO experience and if a given kib is there just to aggravate a player by their presence alone then it's my personal feeling that the player should have an option of removing that kib. What I'm describing is on a personal level and not a matter of cheating, disturbing, talking or anything else; it's a matter of a player's comfort. There are hundreds of tables at any given time where any spec can go and I can assure you that the level of play will be much higher than what I can offer. But I am playing at only one table. So what are my choices? Jola

Ben, Every point you made is valid. What you're leaving out is your own contribution to quieting wars and bickerings that happen when you've got this number of members as BBO has. Your work within forum is to be admired. You correcting my post goes far with me and I want to publicly express how much I appreciate your perception of my anger which threw all caution aside. Thank you, Jola

Ben: Allow me to presume that bridge players have a greater intelligence quota than an average person. That being said, allow me to show you the chat from our table. This was not a private message as I see no reason to have to have contact with individuals in question: Abadaba: we seem to have caught the fascination of XXX (my italics) pd doofik: I can do without their fascination, really well gypsyqueen: good comment doofik doofik: :-) Abadaba: it has always been the way they figure things out doofik: it seems that I go out of my way to not be present at tables where they are, but reverse is not quite happening Abadaba: but you have nothing to learn from them doofik: ehhhhhhhhhhh learn or not, I like to be in company that doesn't have it's head up its behind Abadaba: giggle Abadaba: you know what mikey always says doofik: not sure Abadaba: how many monkeys does it take to screw in a lightbulb doofik: lol doofik: I like to think that XXX is here for our gracious opps:-) Abadaba: well we will be able to tell at the next round doofik: I hope I'm right cause for the past few rounds they've followed us, and I don't know why doofik: ah, I forgot, I'll bet it's about cheating:-))))))))) Abadaba: is it your turn or mine this week? doofik: and the 200 member committee to examine my head - if I bid according to someone's fancy or not Let me ask you Ben, would you have gotten a hint by now or do you find it necessary that I send a priv on top of that? Jola P.S. XXX = the group in question

Claus: I beg to differ. This is about presence not necessarily communication - I'm a social animal and I like my friends being at my table. So now my choices are (as per your suggestion) to ban everyone or ban no one. Do I have that correct?

Thank you Ben for taking the names out, and I apologize but when I get steamed then, oh boy, trouble :P And no, I have absolutely no problem with you playing/kibbitzing at any table where I'm present. Uday, I can do what you suggest but what you need to consider is that your time will be limited to nothing but needing to respond to whining. Your choice, what you propose I don't envy:-) Since you are familiar with zoos, how do zookeepers keep cats and dogs apart? Perhaps that will work here also:-) But quite seriously, I think that players should have the option of removing kibs. This isn't directed to just this situation I've encountered today. Not every kib is welcomed and players need a tool to adjust their surroundings without having to search for a "yellow" or having to write letters. Perhaps I'm simplistic but that's the way I see it. Jola P.S. What if your skin crawls when you have to go near that kib, nevermind talking. Now what?

I haven't seen this topic addressed yet but it's one that needs immediate attention, at least from my point of view, and the title says it all. On January 1,2004 I received a letter from our sponsor and benefactor, XXXXX, and I quote: "You're rich. I'll say that. Your outrage has been noted. My scheduling was a mistake. You may send my apologies to your pal and have her send my her schedule so it does not happen again... Better yet, send it to YYYYYY... Cuz I don't even want to get close enough to either one of you to even have to see your name on an email ever again. " And today, lo and behold, I see the whole (GROUP OF THEM) at my table, following me in the tourney. And there's no option to remove them, no option to do anything other than to continue getting insulted with their presence. I thought one's word was one's honor, so what gives? This is a direct plea to Fred, Sheri and Uday - please either talk to them or give me tools to not have to suffer the presence of the righteous. My other option is to say good bye - that's also doable. Jola

Not to add oil to fire but the future of events such as Bermuda Bowl played via net might be closer than you think. Take a look at first page of Friday's bulletin from Reno, where ACBL has decided not to send a team to Istanbul citing lack of security. So now the question is when will the US follow the rest of the world in giving cash prizes to x number of top finishers. I guess it will have to to "stay in the game". Jola

Uday: Your response, while illuminating, has the same flaw as Ben's opinion, imho. We're staring at a possibility of a witchhunt by a faceless, nameless committee - are you saying that you don't see anything wrong with this? And no, I don't have a perfect solution nor even anything that resembles a solution. I don't think that accusations of cheating ought to start with someone's success in 5 tourneys in close succession. However, and this is just my private observation, a drastic reversal of game level in an extremely short period of time will, by its nature, bring questions of honesty. I'm not talking about hands that are perfect for one bidding system vs. another, I'm talking about declaring and defense. When accusing there are so many issues to look at. I'll give you a for instance. Lately I've been playing Polish Club which happens to have more variations than pills in any pharmacy. Is there anyone out there who's an expert in everything that the Polish Club offers? How about blends of Polish Club with strefa? If you're planning to use experts they ought to be aware of those combinations and the question that lends itself is, will those players lend a hand to an investigation in which, aside from a gratification of catching a potential cheater, there's nothing to gain? I'd be curious to hear what others think. Jola

Ben: Perhaps what is missing in my and your discussion here is a matter of trust for the committee, a trust in discretion. So we can continue this haggling over a long period of time and neither one of us will convince the other. People's names have been sullied? Really? Can anyone point to either Aba or Mike as the source? Because I presume we all are aware that the source of "talk" is the need to explain in letters sent to several members by the former members. Or setting up chats one-on-one where the accused explains his/her position to others. My point still is that yes, I have faith in "Abalucy guys" as to their discretion and I lack same for the nameless, faceless committee to whom an infraction is being reported by another nameless, faceless player. Perhaps I ought to explain something further. I was born and raised in Communist Poland - how much more would you like me to say? Jola

Ben: And my feeling is that someone had seen something and reported it. Whoever reported it is the beginning of the story. Then there is the committee who, allegedly, gets anonymous hands. Forgive me if I feel that you're too optimistic. It's not a matter of putting too much faith in Abalucy guys, it's just that I've seen it done first hand. Where the matter is being discussed all third parties are excused from the discussion. Is this a guarantee that you're willing to give me? If you can't then I stand by my position. Jola

Ben: The way AbaLucy functions is fine with me. What I have a problem believing is that a larger committee can be trusted to keep everything secret. The way some suggest disconneting outside communication means lacking trust in its use, the same way I lack trust that any investigating committee will be discreet. I don't think this is as much of a stretch as you imagine. Consequently I'd rather stop playing than to listen to "whispers" of a group of peers. Jola

Ben: I'm not suggesting that AbaLucy is a cheat-free zone. What you need to take a look at is the way it's been dealt with - quickly, decisively and with a great deal of discretion. Jola

To All Posters re: cheating Everyone is speaking out about cheating and how to circumvent it. As much as I hate cheaters and being cheated I also dislike the idea of creating a police state on BBO, where there is nothing to gain. I limit my play to AbaLucy club because there's no intrusiveness and majority of people are great. Otherwise I stick to table games with people I know and like. If and when a "game police" will be created I, for one, will refrain from playing altogether. What amazes me is that some people go to lengths of involving 5 people in a discussion of creating a police force while owners of BBO see it more the way I do. Blatant cases ought to be banned and let everyone else live and breathe. Loosen up please. Jola P.S. Don't even think of disconnecting my messenger and either trust that it's being used appropriately or don't play against me.

Dear Aba and Ben: Now I feel like Gilda Radner with "oh nevermind" lol. Proving worthy of being goofy doofy, goofy doofy

Thank you Aba and Ben ;) I guess what I tried to convey is the following: I don't know squat about percentage plays, right and wrong lines of play. I'm just a simple woman from a village who likes to plan strategy in bridge. I've had some great mentors and, hopefully, I'm not bringing shame to them. All that being said, my level of play, IMHO, is lousy. However, like any blind chicken who happens upon a seed, every so often I have a brilliant moment. I've heard whispers from some players that they abandon a weird but winning line of play because they don't want to be questioned. Are we now dealing with paranoia? Wouldn't it be better to ban blatant cases and forego suspicions as bridge is a game of random guesses (at least in my case)? In the Philadelphia area, where I live, there are a number of brilliant players with a few absolute magicians. Imagine if one of them showed up under an assumed name and proceeded with his magic. Or a World Class were to show up under a common alias and just played. Now what? And yes Ben, I also feel that Abalucy is a tremendous addition to BBO. Your allegation of publicizing names of players suspected of cheating and consequently banned is wrong. The publicity comes from said players sending letters to their friends and partners explaining their position. At least this is what I've seen thus far. With best regards, goofy doofy

Reading posts in this thread made me realize something. Oh my God, I'm a novice and as such I am expected to make common errors at the table. They happen but not as often as any expert would like. So now, what do I do? Do I change my skill level? - not a good option, I don't qualify for a beginner even. Do I stop thinking and play on autopilot? - not a good option, my grey cells won't let me. Do I allow to become a subject of whispers in the BBO community that doofik cheats? - hell of an option. So please pundits, tell me what to do?

If I may respond... What you're not taking into consideration is that if we plan to have a club for World Class we need to look at some common value. The common value in case of Top Flight is the gold star. It is not up to us to assess why a given player has received the star, and I have zero intentions of questioning the qualifications. It's a given that in a country with 100 players the level of a star might be lesser. That being said, I believe that those players who were given a gold star had to have qualified to their country's representation in an international event. You generally don't qualify if you're a Flight B player and I think it might be wise to consider that if BBO feels that a representative of a given country is worthy of a gold star it might be a way to popularize the game so that at the next event there are 200 players vying for the right to represent the country. That's how the game becomes competitive. The truth of the matter is that there are a few power countries with rich bridge tradition and then there are others. If you cared about the game, how would you go about a growing membership? I think BBO is doing it the right way, my humble opinion :)

Well, we held two events for Top Flight. Steve got his wish, we had 4 pairs in each event. The evening one drew over 80 kibs - of course, Eric Kokish and Beverly Kraft played against Bruce Gowdy with someone named sfr. At the other table demilton played with Stan against val22 and Solange. It appeared that everyone was having a good time, both the players and the kibs. An expert commentary was provided by Bob McPhee, thank you Bob:-) In the afternoon the frequency was much lesser even though the quality was there as famus with syra competed against Tiger_ with kapitanski. At the other table, smispi with ollina played against ppilot and szu. Again a great time was had by all. Look forward to seeing more players and kibs at Top Flight matches and tourneys.

Hello Edvin: Just read your post and thought I'd try a reply so please bear with me. Top Flight is meant to simply give World Class players a chance to play together, to test against the best. And you're right, there will be problems as already people who never knew that I exist (I don't know how that happened ;D) are greeting me as if I were a long-lost buddy. The idea of Top Flight is simple, either you're worthy of a gold star in the BBO value system or you're not. And as such, if you agree to join Top Flight, you get the right to nominate A PARTNER to play with. To date, we've been able to attract World Class players who don't even come to BBO. We will see how much time they'll be able to devote to playing. Refusals we've gotten have been due to time constraints; everyone we've approached has been thrilled with the idea. I hope that says volumes. Jola

In as much as you're right that there appear to be cliques of players on BBO, they're not organized to allow them a tourney among themselves only. I think that to do that, there has to be some kind of a semblance of an organization. That's the purpose of Top Flight. We seem to be growing by leaps and bounds. Players who have not played much on BBO have been coming out of the woodwork to join which says one thing to me, the idea is good. How it develops further, we will have to wait and see.

I don't quite understand the problem with forming yet another club on BBO. So it is elitist, is that anyone's problem? No one is twisting anyone's arm to kib, to join, to do anything. I find the criticism here to be of the "I don't qualify therefore let me complain". Why don't you wait and see what happens down the line before you anticipate, whatever it is that you anticipate to criticize us. Lines are clearly drawn what qualifies a player to become a member of Top Flight. Just give us some credit that we know how to say "NO". None of us is able to play in Top Flight, we'd dilute the level to no end. We're doing it to give the best a chance to compete among themselves. What is the problem???